Town of Olive

County of Ulster

State of New York

Tuesday, August 5, 2003

Minutes of the monthly audit meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Olive and the regular monthly meeting held Tuesday, August 5, 2003, 7:00 pm at the Town Meeting Hall in Shokan, NY.   

Members Present:                  Berndt Leifeld, Supervisor

                                                Cindy Johansen, Council Member

                                                Helen Chase, Council Member

                                                Bruce La Monda, Council Member

                                                Linda Burkhardt, Council Member

Recording Secretary:  Sylvia Rozzelle, Town Clerk

Others Present:          Jim Fugel, Highway Superintendent; Everett Cook, ZBA

Member; Ronald Wright and Vincent Barringer, Town Justices; Robert Oakes and Paula Minew, Planning Board Members; John Ingram, ZEO; Gene Sorbellini, Recreation Director; Tom Planz, Olive Fire Chief; Todd West, NYC DEP District Engineer; Ed Welch, NYC DEP Police Chief; Mike Principe, NYC DEP Deputy Commissioner; Ira Stern, NYC DEP Municipal Relations Manager

On a Leifeld/Johansen motion the Town Board tabled the approval of the July minutes until next months meeting.

On a La Monda/Chase motion the Town Board unanimously approved payment of the following audited bills:            Highway Vouchers #232-#271, $62,976.68; General Fund Prepaid Vouchers #315-#316, $2,222.00; General Fund Vouchers #317-#385, $47,664.08; Street Lighting Voucher #7, $29.87.

Supervisor Leifeld introduced four representatives from the New York City DEP to discuss the closing of the lemon squeeze, aka Monument Road.  He stated numerous questions are being asked within the town as to why this road is closed so the best way to know those answers is to have the DEP explain.  Supervisor Leifeld turned the meeting over to Michael Principe, DEP Deputy Commissioner.

Mike Principe stated that closing Monument Road was an action NY City did not take lightly.  He stated this closure was not due to the structure being unsound since the structure was recently checked and found sound.  He noted the dam (Monument Road) is scheduled for refurbishing in 2008 and they are not planning to close the dividing weir; Monument Road is the only one closed.   Mr. Principe noted the Ashokan Reservoir supplies 40% of the water to NY City and also to other towns along the way.  He noted NY City is at high risk on the terrorists list with the City being in condition orange at this point.  He noted if this condition goes to green then they would consider reopening the road.   He noted as it stands now Monument Road will be permanently closed.

DEP Police Chief Ed Welch stated since 9/11 the Corps of Engineers were on hand to do an evaluation looking at the Citys structures, facilities, assets, tunnels, reservoirs, and aqueducts.  He stated they have had a consistent security threat analysis for all their dams and the consensus of the Corps of Engineers is to close the dam to vehicular traffic.  Chief Welch stated that 20,000 people live within two hours of the dam in case of failure.  He stated the NYS Corrections Officers guarding the dam were not effective in stopping larger vehicles; therefore, reluctantly, he made the decision to close the dam.  He stated though the dividing weir is also vulnerable they felt it important to leave it open to local traffic.   

Mike Principe stated the issue now is focused on the detour section of Route 28A.  He noted NYC has requested the DOT review this road as to what improvements can be done, both short term and long term.  He stated he has also invited our Town Highway Superintendent to make recommendations.  Mr. Principe noted on a map what improvements would be done immediately to the detour section of Route 28Atrimming and clearing back vegetation, improving shoulders, repainting lines, and improving signage.  He noted on the western side they would investigate the feasibility of realigning the road and improving the grade.  He stated the dam, Monument Road, is set for renovation in about five years noting they are currently entering into a design contract.   He stated one thing to be looked at will be improving the detour section of Route 28A to open it up and to renovate it.  He stated the dividing weir and waste channel bridge are slated for improvements in the next few years. 

Ira Stern stated that a lot of people use the middle dyke area for recreation, walking and biking, though it is not open to vehicular traffic.   He stated they would like to establish another parking area for access.   He noted the guardrail is too close to the road and they will be adding another stop sign to allow for pedestrian access.  On Reservoir Road they hope to create a master plan for the Ashokan Reservoir that will improve recreation access while addressing security concerns.  He stated though these will not happen overnight they hope to make the road better for the upcoming winter. 

David Rosenbaum stated that the City has been throwing us fish but the town needs to have that road open.  He stated the closing of Monument Road is a major inconvenience to townspeople and emergency services.

Mike Principe stated the City does want to work closely with the community and does want to make it as least burdensome to the town; however, they cant minimize the importance of the city structures.

Vince Barringer stated he worked 34 ½ years for the NY City Water Supply.  He stated his experience was that the local people were the ears and eyes for the City of New York and now the city has alienated those who have protected this water supply.  He stated the DEP has 35 police in this precinct and NY City was not having a problem with Monument Road open when NY State was footing the bill for the officers at the guard posts.  He stated President Bush had stressed after 9/11 to not let that incident disrupt our lives, yet the City of New York is controlling our lives.  He addressed the NY City representatives stating, You know and I know that youre ultimate goal is to close this road permanently.  He stated concerns were expressed about the Empire State Building, Holland Tunnel, and Lincoln Tunnel but they didnt choose to close these structures.

Police Chief Welch stated this reservoir has 9 million people who depend on it and it is different situation.

David Rosenbaum expressed concern that emergency personnel were able to get across the reservoir in 7 minutes and now it takes 15 minutes. 

Vince Barringer stated he is in attendance here tonight to convince the city representatives that we need this road open and now we know that the NY City is not going to listen to us.

Joe Tumasian stated that when he worked at the reservoir the dividing weir was a 32 ton limit bridge and 18 years ago the weight limit changed to 16 tons.  He stated that 18 years is long enough time to fix a bridge.  He stated he was told when he worked for the DEP to tell the people what they want to hear because we will do what we want anyway.  He stated NY City is hiding behind terrorism to avoid spending money.  Joe Tumasian asked if NY City honestly feels the security is better now with barricades than it was with the guys guarding the roads.  Chief Welch responded these officers were on the front line and they did not want to sacrifice them.

Mike Principe stated in response to the weight limit on the bridge that the Catskill System is now up for repair noting that millions have been spent getting dams repaired in the Croton project.  He stated the weight limits would be increased when work is done on the Ashokan dividing weir. 

Gary Alexander asked what specific characteristics of this road led the Corps of Engineers to close this road.  Chief Welch responded the asset value, amount of water it impounds, and the impact of the water supply in not delivering enough water to Westchester County and south. 

Joseph Angerami stated it appears that NY City is not going to do anything about opening the dam and questioned when they will have the funds to realign Route 28A stating that should have been in the works before they closed the dam.

Richard Lipfert asked if the town could expect the road construction to be done at night as they do in NY City.

Tree McElhenny requested clarification on emergency access to Monument Road to which Chief Welch stated the dam is only accessible to emergency vehicles in case someone is injured while biking or walking on the dam.  He stated it would not be open to emergency vehicles otherwise.

Bill McCarthy stated he appreciated the city representatives coming to this meeting but noted they are wasting our time.  He stated the town needs to petition the people who can get the City in Manahattan to move on this issue.  He also asked if the guards were not effective then whose fault was that. 

Council Member La Monda asked if the Corps of Engineers required or requested this road closed he would like to get a copy of that letter or document.   Chief Welch stated he could not provide that due to security reasons.  Council Member La Monda stated the town is not asking for anything violating security issues; were asking for something in writing from the Corps of Engineers specifically stating they request this road be closed.

Council Member La Monda asked under what authority did the City of New York close this public road further requesting to know what law allowed them to do that.  Chief Welch stated that safety gives them the right and the 20,000 people who live below the dam.

Council Member La Monda stated his concern about knowing the legal authority under which the City closes roads is that maybe the City could come along and actually close Route 28A.   Mike Principe responded by stating an environmental assessment is in the process of being done under SEQR for the closing of Monument Road.   Council Member La Monda again asked for the section of law that the city is acting under. 

Council Member La Monda asked how long it would take to get a design contract for the detour section of Route 28A and what does a bit longer mean in getting this portion of the road done.  Mike Principe stated that the small things would be done before winter though he couldnt give a definitive answer on when the realignment would be done.    

Vince Barringer asked if the city closed the road under the same law they posted a 35 mph speed limit on Route 28A. 

Maya Branman stated that in a very short period of time she has witnessed several accidents on the detour section of Route 28A. 

Matt Beesmer stated that 20,000 people are below the reservoir and 9 million in New York City and the best the City can come up with is four concrete barricades. 

Mary Tumasian asked if there was concern about toxic substances.  Mr. Welch stated they are concerned about it but do not consider it a significant threat at this time.

Helen Jeffs stated that when she was a kid she used to see DEP Police walking the roads and dam.

Tom Planz stated as Fire Chief he can definitely say that by closing Monument Road the city has increased their business in traffic accidents along that road.  Mr. Planz stated from his experience with explosives in Vietnam there is no way someone could blow the dam from the top noting it could be with a backpacker placing it at the bottom.   He stated it was mentioned that the waste channel was to be renovated and he expressed his concern that it would be a big problem if the city did this at the same time they were repairing the dividing weir.   Mike Prinicpe responded they would not be repairing all the bridges at the same time.

Tree McEIhenny asked if the city was in SEQR review to close the road then how could they close it before a determination is made. She also requested knowing who is the lead agency.  Mike Principe stated the city is the lead agency and they closed it due to a threat.  He stated the assessment would be a negative declaration.  Tree McElhenny asked when there would be a public hearing.  He sated that on a negative declaration you would not have a public hearing.

Bobby Wilkins stated that the city should open the dam until they can build a suitable road as an alternate route.  He expressed concern about school buses traveling the Route 28A detour during the winter months noting it is a very unsafe road and was never designed to accommodate the traffic going across it right now.  He stated that if the city really felt there was a threat then they should have reconsidered building their new 2.8 million dollar police barracks in harms way.  He sated that if they close the waste channel bridge, the 15 arch bridge, and the dividing weir then there is absolutely no way for people to get from Olivebridge to Route 28. 

Bill McCarthy asked who ordered the dam closed.  Chief Welch responded that he ordered the dam closed. 

Council Member Burkhardt asked how far along the city is in the SEQR process.  Mr. Principe stated they are ready to prepare the negative declaration this week.    She asked who determines the level of security for New York City.  Chief Welch stated the mayor does.  Chief Welch stated he requested the road be closed due to info from the FBI and Corps of Engineers.  In response to questions again requesting copies of this information, Chief Welch stated he would be able to share this information with another police agency. 

Raecine Shurter stated that the reason there is a short turn out tonight is due to approximately 600 residents attending a meeting to prevent a 50% increase in taxes due to New York City being such a good neighbor.  She expressed her concerns about DEP Police harassing people and gave a specific example involving her father.    She stated that not one person here tonight feels that anyone could blow that dam from the top and added she only hopes the terrorists are as stupid as the City of New York thinks we are. 

Council Member Johansen stated she was in agreement with Raecine Shurter regarding DEP police harassment.  Expressing concerns about funding for the DEP, Council Member Johansen asked what guarantees the town has that funding would be there for these projects.  Mike Principe stated the mayor just approved a 16 billion dollar improvement fund over the next ten years.  

In response to questions from Council Member Johansen regarding CWC funding Ira Stern stated that over the next five years septic renovations will take priority from the streams outward.  Council Member Johansen stated that in the original program magically some of these areas changed because of funding and expressed grave concerns that money wont be available for this project.  Todd West responded that the city met its funding obligations to the CWC.   Ira Stern stated that all of these issues came up after the bridge renovations were planned.  Mr. Prinicpe stated the dam was ear marked anyway in 2008 for closing for major renovation.

Joe Tumasian asked if the DEP is prepared to subsidize businesses that incur losses due to the city closing roads.    Ira Stern stated they would accommodate the traffic but most certainly not subsidize businesses.

Lou Napolitano stated that a bomb could put a hole in the dam and the water will take the dam out.  He stated he would like to see the security of the dam be more diligent with putting more men on.   He stated New York City has a good deal here.

Henny Wise stated she agreed with what Bob Wilkins said in that the city should open the lemon squeeze until such time they fix Route 28A thus addressing our safety.  She stated that perhaps the Army Corps could revisit and be site specific.  Chief Welch stated this dam was a site-specific survey by the Army Corps.

Maya Branman stated she didnt know anything about bombs but could a backpacker blow up the dam.  Chief Welch stated he did not want to get into that issue.  She stated he has already addressed car bombs and didnt understand why he couldnt address this issue. 

Bill Beesmer asked if any assessments were made of the West Hurley Dike or the Spillway were taken out.  Chief Welch stated they are constantly evaluating these areas.  Todd West stated the water at the West Hurley Dike and the Spillway are much shallower compared to the depth you see at the dam.

Bill Beesemer asked if the City has ever looked at desalination plants.  Mike Principe stated that is one of the options they are looking at when they have to shut down systems for renovation. 

Due to the fact that people were leaving the meeting Supervisor Leifeld announced that all residents should attend the August 20^th, 7 pm School Board Meeting at the High School Cafeteria.  He noted the large parcel issue would be on their agenda. 

Joe Angermai noted that Chief Welch stated the 35 DEP police officers here in Ashokan are for the purpose of patrolling the watershed and providing public safety.   Mr. Angerami asked then why arent there more DEP police officers patrolling the reservoir instead of patrolling Woodstock.

Jim Fugel, Highway Superintendent, stated the city representatives mentioned that the cutting of brush and trees along Route 28A would be put out to contract.  He stated that if this were his road to take care of he would have his work crew out there at 6 a.m. tomorrow noting that the DEP most certainly has the manpower and equipment to complete this project in house. 

Supervisor Leifeld stated he is somewhat confused about one issue.  He stated when they previously talked about bridge repairs the town was told by NY City that only one bridge would be repaired at a time and one lane of traffic would be kept open.  Mr. Principe responded that the City of New York will be repairing only one bridge at a time and one lane of traffic will be kept open during these repairs.  

Council Member La Monda stated in discussion six years ago with Joe Boek the city was in design for road repairs and now Todd West is saying they are still in design.  He stated he is currently 65 years old and questioned if he would see this roadwork done in his lifetime.  Todd West stated that dates are established but they still are in design. 

Barbara Wright stated since there are more people walking and recreating on the dam how will the First Aid Unit get their equipment through the barriers and out on the dam.  

Mike Principe thanked everyone and appreciated comments made at this meeting.  He stated he would like to come back in a few months to discuss tax issues noting that their Commissioner would like to set down with Supervisor Leifeld and open up discussion to discuss the tax assessment. 

Council Member La Monda stated he has spent 15 or 16 years on the Town Board and has to tell everyone that he has never been more proud of our residents who attended and/or spoke at last nights school board meeting.

Eugene DeMayo stated he has been a resident of Brown Road since 1980 and is in a unique situation.  He stated he has been aware of a right of way to the right of his property that would allow for a subdivision behind him.  He stated he has been aware of the water problem there from the beginning.  He stated that about 18 months ago the property adjacent sold and the issue was proposed to the Planning Board.  He sated he spoke with Bill Davis by phone and asked Mr. Davis to speak to the Planning Board on his behalf and let them know of the existing water problem so this could be taken into consideration when building the roadway.  Mr. DeMayo stated he feels that anyone that owns a piece of property has the right to use it unless they affect another persons property.  He stated since building the road a dam has been created and the water problem is severe.  Mr. DeMayo noted he has discussed this issue with Highway Superintendent Jim Fugel, Zoning Enforcement Officer John Ingram, and more recently Supervisor Leifeld.  He stated that after 18 months of dealing with this he still has a tremendous water problem and nothing has been done to solve the problem.  Mr. DeMayo stated he wants all this documented since he has now been told that the newly constructed house has been completed and is going to be sold at the end of this month.   He stated he fears that once the house is sold then there is no recourse to rectify the problem.  He stated that Highway Superintendent Fugel can not do his job because no road construction plans have ever been put in front of him. 

Council Member La Monda asked Highway Superintendent Fugel what it would take to improve the situation to which Mr. Fugel replied a professional engineer would be needed.  

Mr. DeMayo stated the roadway should never have been put in the way it was put in stating that no planning, engineering, or anything has been done regarding this roadway and it hasnt complied with NYS law.   Mr. DeMayo stated that permits should not have been issued and the road should have been built in accordance with Highway Superintendent Fugels approval. He noted that none of this was done.   

John Ingram, ZEO, stated he spoke with Mr. Boyd, owner of the subdivided property, and the engineering report should be in his office prior to the house closing.   Mr. Ingram stated there is water being pumped onto Mr. Boyds property from Mr. Demayos property.  Mr. Ingram stated he has spent a great deal of time with Mr. Boyd and he will not get a Certificate of Occupancy until such time the engineering plan is in his office.

Town Clerk Rozzelle stated the Town Board at its April 2, 2003, meeting referred the Open Development District request to the Planning Board for their review and recommendation.  She read excerpts from the minutes of the motion and also of the Town Board letter to the Planning Board requiring a road maintenance agreement approved by the Town Attorney and the private roadway being reviewed and approved by Highway Superintendent Fugel prior to the Planning Board making their recommendation to the Town Board.  She stated the road maintenance agreement received legal approval; however, the Planning Board did not involve Highway Superintendent Fugel in the review process.  She stated the Planning Board granted approval to the subdivision and signed the plat without the Highway Superintendents approval of the private roadway and the Town Boards approval of the Open Development District.

General consensus of the Town Board is that issue should go back to the Planning Board for proper recommendations and approvals and no Certificate of Occupancy or further permits shall be issued until the engineer reports are in and the road is built with the approval from the Highway Superintendent. They stated the Planning Board should then make their recommendations to the Town Board so the Town Board can act on the Open Development District. 

Supervisor Leifeld noted the monthly income through June as $89,517.39 and interest received through June as $8,,079.62.

Supervisor Leifeld dispensed with Committee reports.

On a Leifeld/Burkhardt motion the Town Board unanimously approved Resolution #6 of 2003 accepting a $500.00 grant from Senator Bonacics office for the purchase of recreation equipment.  Roll vote being:  Johansen, yes; Chase, yes; La Monda, yes; Burkhardt, yes; and Leifeld, yes.

On a Leifeld/Chase motion the Town Board unanimously empowered the Highway Superintendent to advertise for bids on excess equipment (#58-03).  Highway Superintendent Fugel stated he would be requesting a check in the amount of 50% of the bid be submitted with the actual bid.

On a Leifeld/La Monda motion and unanimous roll vote the Town Board adjourned to executive session at 10:10 pm to discuss union negotiations. 

The Town Board reconvened the regular meeting at 10:40 pm at which time they adjourned on a Leifeld/La Monda motion in memory of Alfred M. Iapoce.

                                                           

                                                                        Sylvia Rozzelle